When a ISP NAT your WAN IP

[PeterUK]

Just interested in peoples view when a ISP can give you a WAN IP but the hardware they give you must be used and is a NAT router and can not pass the WAN IP to your device be it PC or own router setup.

Should such a thing be allowed?
Do you just roll over and double NAT?

Thanks to any ones feedback

 

[f1assistance]

You can purchase (i.e., pay extra) for a static "public" IP address and configure the ISP modem to pass-thru said IP to your perimeter router. Businesses have been doing this for decades...residential services don't normally have need for such service(s).

 

[PHolder]

If the ISP supplied and requires the hardware, then I presume they do so for a business reason, and probably aren't inclined to allow the user any further control. If you don't trust the supplied hardware, then you want to find a different ISP, but I do realize that may not always be an option. You could contact the ISP's technical support and see if you have any options at all... maybe if you convince them you're not a moronic normie they might have some other option. On the other hand, you are adding their gear to your network, so if you're concerned what access that may grant them, you may want your own protection in there no matter what.

 

[coffeeprogrammer]

That kind of thing is really annoying. When I first got the internet where I live now, my ISP tried to force me to use their hardware. As it turned out every time I added a new device to the network, I would get an email including the mac address of the device. It was very obvious that they wanted to be aware of every device on my private network. That would not have been a big deal, but I also could not put another router behind my ISP supplied router, which is a no go for me. It seemed obvious that the router was designed to function that way. I had to call several times, but eventually I got them to let me use a cheap router I got at Walmart. So what I have now is one network with my cell phone and a few laptops on behind the Walmart router, then I have a much more locked down network behind a pfsense router which is connected to the Walmart router.

ISPs are hard to deal with, I called them once to ask about rules for running my own servers such as an email server. They told me that I can run whatever servers I want and it is not a problem, which I was happy about. I then told them I will need a static public IP and they told me I could for an extra $10 a month. I agreed and they told me I know have a static IP. When I got me next bill, there was no fee for a static IP and a few months later my public IP changed. I never got around to setting up hMail.

That is what it is like dealing with ISPs, you always talk to a loud call center and it obvious they are following a flow chart and they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[EdwinG]

My ISP has been easy to deal with. As long as your modem is VDSL2+Stinger compatible (part of the last mile is Stinger-only, other parts are standardized VDSL2), it will work.

I can and do use my own equipment for the whole chain at home. And I have a static IPv6 prefix delegation.

If I wanted to use their equipment, it’s an option. And they fully support bridged mode or a DMZ host, eliminating most of double NAT issues.

Now, they might not have fibre to my neighbourhood before 2030 and that’s because their competition doesn’t want them to. And that’s a regulatory issue, not will.

 

[PeterUK]

Ok guess I should clearup some things

Business is not a option due to cost and if you need one WAN IP the ISP still NAT's you with there hardware so the only option would be a subnet (more cost) but due to the way the ISP does this limit MTU.

Right now I'm on Docsis and have modem mode on ISP hardware (also does router mode NAT) but Docsis will one day end and my ISP is doing fibre and as a upgrade the hardware does NAT with no modem mode so not really a upgrade. Now there are ways around this to not use the ISP hardware on fibre but really one should not have too.

 

[cschuber]

I think you're conflating router with modem. My ISP provides me a modem that can run in bridge mode. Running in bridge mode my wife's router and my firewall (we have two upstream connections) will obtain IP addresses through DHCP.

If not running in bridge mode, the modem also becomes a WiFi NAT router with internal IPs in the 192.168.0.0/24 network.

You should be able to ask your ISP to switch the modem from non-bridged mode to bridge mode. Or, if you can log into your modem, you can set this yourself. I won't discuss how to discover your modem's IP here nor how to log in -- ISPs rarely change the default username/password so it's easy to slink in.Try asking them to switch the modem to bridge mode.

Note: If you do switch it to bridge mode, it will not act as a WiFi router. You will need to obtain a separate WiFi router yourself.

 

[coffeeprogrammer]

I think you're conflating router with modem. My ISP provides me a modem that can run in bridge mode. Running in bridge mode my wife's router and my firewall (we have two upstream connections) will obtain IP addresses through DHCP.

If not running in bridge mode, the modem also becomes a WiFi NAT router with internal IPs in the 192.168.0.0/24 network.

You should be able to ask your ISP to switch the modem from non-bridged mode to bridge mode. Or, if you can log into your modem, you can set this yourself. I won't discuss how to discover your modem's IP here nor how to log in -- ISPs rarely change the default username/password so it's easy to slink in.Try asking them to switch the modem to bridge mode.

Note: If you do switch it to bridge mode, it will not act as a WiFi router. You will need to obtain a separate WiFi router yourself.

Ya, I have a modem and a router. When I switched to my walmart router my ISP gave me a different modem too and to stupid technician came over which I hate.

 

[PeterUK]

I think you're conflating router with modem. My ISP provides me a modem that can run in bridge mode. Running in bridge mode my wife's router and my firewall (we have two upstream connections) will obtain IP addresses through DHCP.

If not running in bridge mode, the modem also becomes a WiFi NAT router with internal IPs in the 192.168.0.0/24 network.

You should be able to ask your ISP to switch the modem from non-bridged mode to bridge mode. Or, if you can log into your modem, you can set this yourself. I won't discuss how to discover your modem's IP here nor how to log in -- ISPs rarely change the default username/password so it's easy to slink in.Try asking them to switch the modem to bridge mode.

Note: If you do switch it to bridge mode, it will not act as a WiFi router. You will need to obtain a separate WiFi router yourself.

I think your not understanding my situation here that I want peoples views on.

I know what a modem is I know what a router is I know what a hub is I know a hub can run as a modem or as a router, with Docsis I have a hub it is in modem mode but one day my ISP will move me to fibre which they are doing and hub for this fibre connection only does router mode NOT modem mode which is a down upgrade due to how Docsis hubs work by my ISP.

 

[cschuber]

I think your not understanding my situation here that I want peoples views on.

I know what a modem is I know what a router is I know what a hub is I know a hub can run as a modem or as a router, with Docsis I have a hub it is in modem mode but one day my ISP will move me to fibre which they are doing and hub for this fibre connection only does router mode NOT modem mode which is a down upgrade due to how Docsis hubs work by my ISP.

I'm not sure where to begin with this reply. You are conflating terms which don't go together.

Hubs are a thing of the past. Hubs cannot morph into a modem nor can it morph into a router. Ethernet hubs have been replaced with switches. (And USB hubs are a totally different animal way out in left field WRT this discussion.)

If you're talking about a DAH (DOCSIS Access Hub), that is more commonly known as a "modem."

DOCSIS is a communication standard. It's the data over communication standard.

Cable modems of the past were bridge-only modems. They bridged the local network to the cable network. You needed a router of some sort.

Cable modems today are also routers with WiFi AP capability. You can configure most of them back into bridge mode.

 

[PeterUK]

ISP supply hubs this is a modem and with router mode my ISP calls this a hub but if you don't understand this I make it simple. Where should the WAN IP that is not shared be on the ISP hardware or the customer equipment?

 

[miquelfire]

Them calling it a hub is confusing to tech people, actually. Most here uses the term gateway.

For a good ISP, the modem they'll give often have a feature to allow the WAN IP to be shared with a single device connected to it. Often times it's bridge mode (the device acts only like a modem), but some uses something called IP pass-through. Often times this setting is really hidden because they don't want normal non-tech people to use their own routers, but they'll offer the bridge mode because they know the more tech mind customers may switch to another ISP and might suggest others in their service area to not use them.

I'm currently using double nat because the pass-through appears broken on my modem (my router doesn't get an IP address). I assume some firmware update broke it. It might have been fixed, but I have been too lazy to check lately.