HI all. I wanted to bounce something off the collective braintrust here. I've literally been working intermittently for months on BSOD's for Windows 7. I have a troubleshooting log file with many dozens, if not hundreds, of lines. I've done almost all the conventional stuff.
Now before we get off on the wrong tangent, since there are literally hundreds of things that can cause BSOD's, I want to focus on a laser specific theory that I'm working on.
I'm pretty confident that the laptop's hardware is functional. I've removed the dust, changed out the thermal paste, etc. Just the other day, I ran a complete AV scan and got through it. That took 14 hours to process over 7 million files. Also, I've run hours and hours of memory tests with Memtest86+ and CPU tests with Prime95, etc. Even under full SSD and CPU stress, the temperatures stay within limits. The AV scan came out clean.
Sometimes the BSOD's manifest after hours of running. Sometimes they manifest after minutes. They are seemingly very random. The BSOD error messages are pretty random, although they frequently involve ntfs.sys. That makes sense since the file system is being heavily used.
I've pretty much narrowed down to MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials) as ONE trigger, but not the only trigger, particularly when it's running a full virus scan either manually or automatically every Sunday morning. The BSOD's seem to occur in conjunction with the AV scan and other things.
So, my basic procedure is to start an AV scan then either let the computer sit or use it depending on my testing procedure at the time and see when it crashes. I log what I'm doing to my test log before starting, then reboot, run a chkdisk, and update my log after a crash.
So, last night, I had been running an AV scan for quite a while with no problem, say 45 minutes.
As a prelude to what follows, I will note that I have UAC (User Account Control) turned all the way up. That means I should get a password request box for anything that requires admin rights.
So, since the AV scan had been running for a while, I decided to start up something else that hadn't been running. So, I started up SpeedFan. This utility measures temperatures. I do not let it control fan speeds. The BIOS handles that.
SpeedFan requires my admin code to start. In less than 5 minutes, the system crashes. AH-HA, I say, the culprit must be SpeedFan. But wait, there's more. I do my standard reboot, update my troubleshooting log, do a chkdisk, shut down a few things that start automatically, etc.
I start googling around for SpeedFan BSOD, etc. I find that yes, indeed, some people reported issues, mostly years ago. I find some advice that says put /NOSCSISCAN or various other things on the command line for SpeedFan.
Now, here's where it gets interesting. I restarted the AV scan. Meanwhile, I start poking around my system finding links in the various startup folders and on the desktop and modifying the startup command for SpeedFan to add that parameter. But, remember that I said SpeedFan requires an admin password to run. And, I couldn't find SpeedFan in either my user account startup nor in the all users startup folder. I couldn't find the link to modify the SpeedFan command during boot.
So, at this point, the AV scan is running. SpeedFan is NOT running. The PC seems plenty happy. In order to find the command that starts SpeedFan during bootup, I decided to start MSCONFIG. This allows you to look at various things that are scheduled to start up automatically. Note that MSCONFIG ALSO requires an admin code to start. So, I start MSCONFIG, type in my admin code, and IMMEDIATELY, the system BSOD's. (Wow, I'm really having fun now!) And, SpeedFan was nowhere in sight.
So, I rebooted, updated my troubleshooting log, ran a chkdisk, and went to bed. I was up too late last night and up too early this morning.
But, here's the point. Speedfan, which I thought was a trigger, wasn't running. AV was running and was happy. The moment I started ANOTHER admin level program besides the AV, the system crashed.
So my new working theory is that the problem is actually occurring when two or more admin level programs try to access the SSD, or maybe the RAM, or even the CPU, at the same time. It obviously doesn't have to be SpeedFan necessarily although it appears that SpeedFan can ALSO cause the crash. Maybe ANY two admin level programs can do it. Maybe it's a bug that's been in Windows forever. Who knows. But, that's my current theory.
I do run several things which require admin rights all the time. Those would be (presumably) AV, TorGuard, SpeedFan, Crystal Disk Info, and an NTP Server Monitor. I will further note that the BSOD's almost never occur when a virus scan is not running, although they sometimes do. I presume this is just due to the statistical fact that the AV is an admin level program and it stresses the PC much harder and more continuously. So, there's more likely to be a collision with something else running.
Well, this got a bit long since it was hard to explain. If you've read this far, I appreciate it. And, I totally appreciate any help anyone can give. Let me know what you think of my multiple admin programs conflicting theory. Thanks in advance.
I DEFINITELY don't want Windows 10 or 11 or a new PC. It would take me 2 months to get it tuned in and declutter and disable all the rubbish and privacy invading stuff.
Sincerely,
May your bits be stable and your interfaces be fast.
Ron
Now before we get off on the wrong tangent, since there are literally hundreds of things that can cause BSOD's, I want to focus on a laser specific theory that I'm working on.
I'm pretty confident that the laptop's hardware is functional. I've removed the dust, changed out the thermal paste, etc. Just the other day, I ran a complete AV scan and got through it. That took 14 hours to process over 7 million files. Also, I've run hours and hours of memory tests with Memtest86+ and CPU tests with Prime95, etc. Even under full SSD and CPU stress, the temperatures stay within limits. The AV scan came out clean.
Sometimes the BSOD's manifest after hours of running. Sometimes they manifest after minutes. They are seemingly very random. The BSOD error messages are pretty random, although they frequently involve ntfs.sys. That makes sense since the file system is being heavily used.
I've pretty much narrowed down to MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials) as ONE trigger, but not the only trigger, particularly when it's running a full virus scan either manually or automatically every Sunday morning. The BSOD's seem to occur in conjunction with the AV scan and other things.
So, my basic procedure is to start an AV scan then either let the computer sit or use it depending on my testing procedure at the time and see when it crashes. I log what I'm doing to my test log before starting, then reboot, run a chkdisk, and update my log after a crash.
So, last night, I had been running an AV scan for quite a while with no problem, say 45 minutes.
As a prelude to what follows, I will note that I have UAC (User Account Control) turned all the way up. That means I should get a password request box for anything that requires admin rights.
So, since the AV scan had been running for a while, I decided to start up something else that hadn't been running. So, I started up SpeedFan. This utility measures temperatures. I do not let it control fan speeds. The BIOS handles that.
SpeedFan requires my admin code to start. In less than 5 minutes, the system crashes. AH-HA, I say, the culprit must be SpeedFan. But wait, there's more. I do my standard reboot, update my troubleshooting log, do a chkdisk, shut down a few things that start automatically, etc.
I start googling around for SpeedFan BSOD, etc. I find that yes, indeed, some people reported issues, mostly years ago. I find some advice that says put /NOSCSISCAN or various other things on the command line for SpeedFan.
Now, here's where it gets interesting. I restarted the AV scan. Meanwhile, I start poking around my system finding links in the various startup folders and on the desktop and modifying the startup command for SpeedFan to add that parameter. But, remember that I said SpeedFan requires an admin password to run. And, I couldn't find SpeedFan in either my user account startup nor in the all users startup folder. I couldn't find the link to modify the SpeedFan command during boot.
So, at this point, the AV scan is running. SpeedFan is NOT running. The PC seems plenty happy. In order to find the command that starts SpeedFan during bootup, I decided to start MSCONFIG. This allows you to look at various things that are scheduled to start up automatically. Note that MSCONFIG ALSO requires an admin code to start. So, I start MSCONFIG, type in my admin code, and IMMEDIATELY, the system BSOD's. (Wow, I'm really having fun now!) And, SpeedFan was nowhere in sight.
So, I rebooted, updated my troubleshooting log, ran a chkdisk, and went to bed. I was up too late last night and up too early this morning.
But, here's the point. Speedfan, which I thought was a trigger, wasn't running. AV was running and was happy. The moment I started ANOTHER admin level program besides the AV, the system crashed.
So my new working theory is that the problem is actually occurring when two or more admin level programs try to access the SSD, or maybe the RAM, or even the CPU, at the same time. It obviously doesn't have to be SpeedFan necessarily although it appears that SpeedFan can ALSO cause the crash. Maybe ANY two admin level programs can do it. Maybe it's a bug that's been in Windows forever. Who knows. But, that's my current theory.
I do run several things which require admin rights all the time. Those would be (presumably) AV, TorGuard, SpeedFan, Crystal Disk Info, and an NTP Server Monitor. I will further note that the BSOD's almost never occur when a virus scan is not running, although they sometimes do. I presume this is just due to the statistical fact that the AV is an admin level program and it stresses the PC much harder and more continuously. So, there's more likely to be a collision with something else running.
Well, this got a bit long since it was hard to explain. If you've read this far, I appreciate it. And, I totally appreciate any help anyone can give. Let me know what you think of my multiple admin programs conflicting theory. Thanks in advance.
I DEFINITELY don't want Windows 10 or 11 or a new PC. It would take me 2 months to get it tuned in and declutter and disable all the rubbish and privacy invading stuff.
Sincerely,
May your bits be stable and your interfaces be fast.
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