Locating bad sectors

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DiskTuna

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2021
64
4
Netherlands
@DiskTuna I'm afraid I'm going to have to differ with your assertions. SpinRite is in fact, one of the most unique and effective data recovery solutions on the planet, at least for spinners.

Yeah, I could respond to this but I feel I'd be talking to a wall. I just showed you a video of a data recovery industry standard tool with far more control over hardware than any software only tool and if that does not convince you then nothing will.

We see already that it has effect on Flash, we do not even have to wait. We see that by merely reading, or reading and writing back data behavior of SSD drives changes, for the good. The same is true for many of the effects of refreshing data on spinners. And that's really all it is. Every performed 'miracle' can be explained by very simple mechanisms.
 
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rfrazier

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
225
73
SpinRite 6 has been successfully recovering data using advanced techniques for 16 years. Don't know about previous versions. In 2004, as far as I know, most of the tools you mentioned didn't even exist. If they are now doing what SpinRite does, they're just copying the original. Give credit where credit is due. If they are doing such things, it's about time they got on board. @Steve started it all. The following link is from @Steve 's website - a review from 2004.


May your bits be stable and your interfaces be fast. :cool: Ron
 

DiskTuna

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2021
64
4
Netherlands
Yeah, I have nothing to add really. DeepSpar tools are standard in the data recovery industry as are Acelab's, SpinRite is not. Yes, I have read Spinrite documentation. Yes, I have seen many SR testimonials and I think there isn't one I can not explain without having to resort to 'magic', and it's a category of issues that do not require tools like DeepSpar imager per se. AFAIK the claim of unique level access to hardware that's not matched by any other tool is very disputable, as it's claimed ability to disable sector reallocation.

Anyway, I think it's rather interesting what the benchmark tool reveals about SSD and how simply reading and writing can have effects on performance. So if you don't mind I'd like to focus my attention back to that.
 

rfrazier

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
225
73
The fact is that @Steve was a pioneer, if not the pioneer, in data recovery when most others were just wannabe's. Whether he's currently industry standard has no bearing. He was data recovery when data recovery wasn't cool. These are things you appear to be disputing. And, I imagine he knows more than the rest of us what can and cannot be done from the interface of a storage drive. And yes, that's changed in 16+ years as the drives took control over more and more of their internal operations and hid more and more of it from the interface. It's also true that some of the documentation was written years ago.

But, OK, we can stop questioning @Steve 's claims and zoom to the present and continue exploring what can be done with the current crop of drives. ;)

May your bits be stable and your interfaces be fast. :cool: Ron
 
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DiskTuna

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2021
64
4
Netherlands
The fact is that @Steve was a pioneer, if not the pioneer, in data recovery when most others were just wannabe's.
I don't see how this is relevant. What's relevant is today's drives and how we best recover data from them. And maintain them, let's not forget that. IMO this is where SR6.1 has found it's niche as it is already demonstrated the effects of SR6 on performance.
Whether he's currently industry standard has no bearing. He was data recovery when data recovery wasn't cool.
I'm sure there were many others that thought data recovery was cool but you simply never heard of them. I don't understand why you're brining this up.
These are things you appear to be disputing.
Am I? I think this is a straw man.
And, I imagine he knows more than the rest of us what can and cannot be done from the interface of a storage drive.
There are many that know more about that than the rest of us (us? who's us, this forum?). I again fail to see what point you're trying to make. There's only so much you can communicate with a drive or tell what to do and not do. For many SSD drives to be put in factory mode and accept low level commands you have to short specific points on the PCB, physically. For many drives you need terminal access for true low level access. There appears to be a trend indeed where manufacturers are making lower level access harder, some now even go as far as encrypting their firmware. It's not about how much Steve knows, it's the limitations about what you physically can and can not do.

Which is my main point really: advertise what you can do. Don't claim lower level access to hardware than any other tool in the world when this demonstrably isn't true. IMO you can make a perfectly viable product for HD and SSD maintenance without having to resort to steep claims and SR6.1 is the perfect opportunity for that.
 

rfrazier

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
225
73
@DiskTuna Look. I have no wish to fight, and there's no need to. But, this forum belongs to Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corporation, IE @Steve . By "us" I meant people on the forum, and Steve's Security Now podcast fans, and SpinRite users. I and many here have known him for 15 years through his podcast. I don't know him personally. But, I've spent a lot of hours listening to him explain security issues, technology, and a good bit of talk about hard drives, data recovery, and SpinRite. He essentially invented the world of hard disk data recovery when almost no one else was doing that. I've heard enough of his commentary to know that he's a solid engineer who doesn't make exaggerated claims about what he, or his software, can do. On several occasions, including:
Don't claim lower level access to hardware than any other tool in the world when this demonstrably isn't true.
you have made allegations, or implied, that Steve is making exaggerated claims. I assure you that, whatever he said in his documentation, at the time he said it, was true to the best of his knowledge. If technology has changed, then we can investigate to determine how that new technology can interact and benefit from the old world of SpinRite, which is being updated as you know. I would like to suggest that you stop disparaging SpinRite, or Steve's work, or his claims. Let's move forward and learn more about the world of data storage and how to protect all our precious fragile bits. But, bear in mind that spinners are far from gone. Even some of the old ones like 4 GB ones are still chugging along. So, there's still lots of work for SpinRite to do. And, as you've seen with SSD's, but it's also true for spinners, SpinRite has a very cool therapeutic effect on the drives, helping to prevent data loss from ever occurring in the first place.

So, here's to saving the data! Forward! (y)

May your bits be stable and your interfaces be fast. :cool: Ron
 

DiskTuna

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2021
64
4
Netherlands
@DiskTuna Look. I have no wish to fight, and there's no need to.
I am not. I am speaking my mind.
But, this forum belongs to Steve Gibson of Gibson Research Corporation, IE @Steve . By "us" I meant people on the forum, and Steve's Security Now podcast fans, and SpinRite users. I and many here have known him for 15 years through his podcast. I don't know him personally. But, I've spent a lot of hours listening to him explain security issues, technology, and a good bit of talk about hard drives, data recovery, and SpinRite.
Yes, I have been following Steve too, off and on for years.
He essentially invented the world of hard disk data recovery when almost no one else was doing that. I've heard enough of his commentary to know that he's a solid engineer who doesn't make exaggerated claims about what he, or his software, can do. On several occasions, including:

you have made allegations, or implied, that Steve is making exaggerated claims.
Yes, I believe that was and is an exaggerated claim as I believe that Spinrite successes can be explained by well understood mechanisms, no magic involved nor required. Reason we're now discussing it again is because you keep bringing it up.
I assure you that, whatever he said in his documentation, at the time he said it, was true to the best of his knowledge. If technology has changed, then we can investigate to determine how that new technology can interact and benefit from the old world of SpinRite, which is being updated as you know. I would like to suggest that you stop disparaging SpinRite, or Steve's work, or his claims.
I didn't come here to and/or start criticizing Spinrite. In fact I'm here because I find the RS results rather fascinating. I responded to claims that were made in this thread and tried to explain myself. I initially explained how Spinrite and chkdsk are totally different beasts and why I think in-place repairs are a bad idea, how data that was corrupt in the first place can not be recovered even if you read it 10000 times. I then used the DeepSpar tool to illustrated how re-reading and statistical analysis of returned data often is not possible, specially on modern hard drives. The way I see it is that I simply address points that are put forward to the best of my knowledge.

I think I can not make myself more clear so I'll give this a rest.