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Issue with external HDD & SpinRite 6.1

#1

Adam-F

Adam-F

Hi All,

Over this past weekend, I have been having ago with SpinRite 6.1 release 4.

I have some USB 3.0 external hard drive enclosures, that are powered by a separate power socket supply cables, with a USB 3.0 cable for data transfer.

I have noticed that spinrite doesn't recognise these drives, when in the enclosure.

I also have a 1TB laptop drive in an enclosure, that is bus powered via a USB 3.0 cable, which is recognised by spinrite.

Why is this the case?

Would it be best for me to purchased a ZimaBoard 232, to use with spinrite and all my drives directly?

Thanks

Adam


#2

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
Why is this the case?
Click to expand...

It's unlikely anyone can reliably answer your question because it would probably be particular to your machine's particular BIOS.

It's really not recommended to use SpinRite 6.1 over USB. Yes it can sometimes work, but that depends highly on the BIOS and BIOS USB support is potentially fraught with dangers. (Older motherboards had a serious bug that could lead to corruption, so to prevent running into that SpinRite has to clamp down on drive size to avoid it.) SpinRite doesn't have USB drivers, so using it will be slower on USB drives. Additionally, the BIOS buffer sizes are smaller than what SpinRite uses when it can use its own drivers, so that also causes slow downs. Additionally USB to SATA/IDE is a translation layer, and some of the translations are preventing SpinRite from knowing all it could about the drive.


#3

Adam-F

Adam-F

PHolder said:
It's unlikely anyone can reliably answer your question because it would probably be particular to your machine's particular BIOS.

It's really not recommended to use SpinRite 6.1 over USB. Yes it can sometimes work, but that depends highly on the BIOS and BIOS USB support is potentially fraught with dangers. (Older motherboards had a serious bug that could lead to corruption, so to prevent running into that SpinRite has to clamp down on drive size to avoid it.) SpinRite doesn't have USB drivers, so using it will be slower on USB drives. Additionally, the BIOS buffer sizes are smaller than what SpinRite uses when it can use its own drivers, so that also causes slow downs. Additionally USB to SATA/IDE is a translation layer, and some of the translations are preventing SpinRite from knowing all it could about the drive.
Click to expand...
So would the best safest option be to use a ZimaBoard 232 and the SATA ports to directly connect the drives and run spinrite?


#4

C

CSPea

Hi Adam,
Yes, this idea works well for me, and evidently works too for a few others here on the forum.

Admittedly we need a spare display for the ZimaBoard, but I've streamlined my own setup by coupling-up with an otherwise near-end-of-life PC case.

The case's still-good PSU provides power to a drive-swappable caddy that's still mounted in the case, and the caddy's SATA cable emerges to connect to one of the ZimaBoard's SATA ports.

Yes it's true that with this setup the drive under test is being powered by a supply external to and independent from the ZimaBoard, but provided I ensure the hard drive (in the caddy) is powered up and spinning before I boot the ZimaBoard into life, this has worked trouble-free.

You can imagine other variations no doubt 😋


#5

Adam-F

Adam-F

CSPea said:
Hi Adam,
Yes, this idea works well for me, and evidently works too for a few others here on the forum.

Admittedly we need a spare display for the ZimaBoard, but I've streamlined my own setup by coupling-up with an otherwise near-end-of-life PC case.

The case's still-good PSU provides power to a drive-swappable caddy that's still mounted in the case, and the caddy's SATA cable emerges to connect to one of the ZimaBoard's SATA ports.

Yes it's true that with this setup the drive under test is being powered by a supply external to and independent from the ZimaBoard, but provided I ensure the hard drive (in the caddy) is powered up and spinning before I boot the ZimaBoard into life, this has worked trouble-free.

You can imagine other variations no doubt 😋
Click to expand...
Hi @CSPea can you please provide images or links to your full setup if possible?

Does the ZimaBoard have a full size hdmi port?

As I have a second cable for additional use on my tv, so a setup on my desk will not be a problem.

It's just getting a stable setup going, so all drives are detected.

Thanks


#6

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
ZimaBoard
Click to expand...
It's worthy of note that we're nearing that time of year (Black Friday) and that in past years Zima has had some better deals at that time. Last year, when I made my purchase, it saved me around 30%.


#7

Adam-F

Adam-F

PHolder said:
It's worthy of note that we're nearing that time of year (Black Friday) and that in past years Zima has had some better deals at that time. Last year, when I made my purchase, it saved me around 30%.
Click to expand...
@PHolder great, do they have a site for purchase boards to the UK?

I will take a look throughout this week?

Thanks


#8

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
do they have a site for purchase boards to the UK?
Click to expand...
I'm Canadian, they shipped it to me, and I don't think they have a problem shipping internationally, but it's not free, of course. I don't think they have a UK specific site. You could also check Amazon UK... they carry them in the US and Canada, but the prices are not as good, and there are none of the extras, that the main site has.


#9

ColbyBouma

ColbyBouma

Another option is to buy an old PC from a thrift store or eBay. The range of CPU generations I would recommend is roughly Core 2 Duo to 6th-gen (Core i5-6500, for example). SpinRite does not need much compute power, so even the Core 2 Duo should be plenty. All of those will have plenty of RAM. Check inside the case to make sure there's easy access to the hard drive bay(s), and all the required cables are present.


#10

A

AlanD

A couple of thoughts with the original problem:-
1 Are the external USB 3.0 drives connected and powered before you boot the PC? The BIOS will only recognise devices that are live at POST time.
2 Try connecting the USB 3.0 drives to a USB 2.0 port. Some BIOS's only recognise USB 1 or 2. USB 3.0 is a bit new for BIOS.


#11

Adam-F

Adam-F

AlanD said:
A couple of thoughts with the original problem:-
1 Are the external USB 3.0 drives connected and powered before you boot the PC? The BIOS will only recognise devices that are live at POST time.
2 Try connecting the USB 3.0 drives to a USB 2.0 port. Some BIOS's only recognise USB 1 or 2. USB 3.0 is a bit new for BIOS.
Click to expand...
@AlanD They are connected to a active powered USB 3.0 Hub, which must be powered on before booting up the PC.Ala

If this is not done the keyboard & mouse won't work.

I hope this helps.

Thanks


#12

S

Scott

Adam-F said:
@AlanD They are connected to a active powered USB 3.0 Hub, which must be powered on before booting up the PC.Ala

If this is not done the keyboard & mouse won't work.

I hope this helps.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I would only expect drives directly attached to the motherboard to even have a chance of being recognized at boot up if they are externally powered. Did you try that?


#13

Adam-F

Adam-F

Scott said:
I would only expect drives directly attached to the motherboard to even have a chance of being recognized at boot up if they are externally powered. Did you try that?
Click to expand...
No I can't do that, due to physical space and the location and setup of my PC.

I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.


#14

S

Scott

Adam-F said:
No I can't do that, due to physical space and the location and setup of my PC.

I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.
Click to expand...
Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant USB drives directly attached to the USB ports on the motherboard (not to a USB hub) had the best chance of being recognized. But it sounds like your drives connected via a hub. Did you try these problematic USB drives connected directly to USB ports on the motherboard?


#15

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.
Click to expand...
They will allow booting a FreeDOS session to run SpinRite, but if you were already able to do that and the drives were not recognized then changing to another PC is not necessarily going to improve that if they remained USB connected. (Not claiming that was your situation, just making it clear is case others come along and misunderstand.) As I understand your intention, you intend to shuck the USB portion during SpinRite usage on the new machine, and that should certainly solve the issue of detection.


#16

Adam-F

Adam-F

Scott said:
Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant USB drives directly attached to the USB ports on the motherboard (not to a USB hub) had the best chance of being recognized. But it sounds like your drives connected via a hub. Did you try these problematic USB drives connected directly to USB ports on the motherboard?
Click to expand...
Yes the drives have been connected to a USB hub, not directly to the motherboard itself.

The drives are all fully functional. I am just trying to get a setup for future purposes.

I currently have my PC about 5 foot away from my desk, I have active cables coming from the PC for USB, HDMI etc to my tv which acts as a monitor.

Hence why a Hub is been used for all my USB devices.

ZimaBoard or small form factor PC would work great on my desk to use with spinrite and multiple drives at one.


#17

Adam-F

Adam-F

PHolder said:
They will allow booting a FreeDOS session to run SpinRite, but if you were already able to do that and the drives were not recognized then changing to another PC is not necessarily going to improve that if they remained USB connected. (Not claiming that was your situation, just making it clear is case others come along and misunderstand.) As I understand your intention, you intend to shuck the USB portion during SpinRite usage on the new machine, and that should certainly solve the issue of detection.
Click to expand...
But the ZimaBoard has direct SATA ports which my PC does have.

So having a board with SATA ports should work right.

Then I can have a small footprint setup for multiple drives connected directly at once.


#18

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
multiple drives connected directly at once
Click to expand...
The supplied power supply with the ZimaBoard is not sufficient to power multiple drives, or maybe even one spinner. Steve recommended one from Amazon. See here for one recommendation: https://forums.grc.com/threads/zimaboard-and-ide-drives.1414/#post-10610


#19

Adam-F

Adam-F

PHolder said:
The supplied power supply with the ZimaBoard is not sufficient to power multiple drives, or maybe even one spinner. Steve recommended one from Amazon. See here for one recommendation: https://forums.grc.com/threads/zimaboard-and-ide-drives.1414/#post-10610
Click to expand...
The power supply you posted is not available in the UK.

But is this one suitable?

24V 3A Power Supply Adapter Converter AC 100V~240V to DC 24 Volt 3 Amp 72W Transformer with 5.5x2.5mm Plug for 5050 3528 LED Strip Light 3D Printer LED Driver CCTV Security System LCD Monitor https://amzn.eu/d/cBZA90b

Is the ZimaBoard 232 standard power supply able to power one HDD or SSD laptop drive or PC drive one at a time?


#20

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
is this one suitable?
Click to expand...
No, that's 24V and you want 12V. This one is the one you probably want. https://www.amazon.co.uk/COLM-Switching-100-240v-Transformers-Accessories-12V-10A/dp/B07J43TMYW it seems an exact comparable to the one Steve listed.


#21

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
Is the ZimaBoard 232 standard power supply able to power one HDD
Click to expand...
I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't assume yes because of the higher power needs of a HDD motor.


#22

Adam-F

Adam-F

PHolder said:
No, that's 24V and you want 12V. This one is the one you probably want. https://www.amazon.co.uk/COLM-Switching-100-240v-Transformers-Accessories-12V-10A/dp/B07J43TMYW it seems an exact comparable to the one Steve listed.
Click to expand...
There is two options 12v 10A & 12v 12A.

Which one should I choose?


#23

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
Which one should I choose?
Click to expand...
Well, in general, amperage doesn't matter, as long as it's enough. I'm no specialist, but my understanding is, all other things being equal, a device will only draw as many amps as it needs. Voltage times amperage is wattage, so you'd have to know if 12v x 10a = 120W is enough for the everything, but I suspect that is more than sufficient as that is was Steve purchased for himself and thus recommended.


#24

ColbyBouma

ColbyBouma

The default power brick is 3A, and the one Steve recommends is 5A. 10A is more than enough :)


#25

Adam-F

Adam-F

So let me do a finish checklist of all the hardware that I will need then this thread can be closed off.

12V 10A Power Supply UK - COLM AC Adaptor 100-240V 50-60HZ DC 12V 120W Adapter Charger​

https://www.amazon.co.uk/COLM-Switching-100-240v-Transformers-Accessories-12V-10A/dp/B07J43TMYW

ZimaBoard 232

shop.zimaboard.com

ZimaBoard - A Decentralized Home Server

Unlock versatile computing with the ZimaBoard Single Board Server, ideal for DIY tech projects and server applications. Experience robust performance and seamless integration in your personal or professional setup. Shop now to elevate your technology!
shop.zimaboard.com shop.zimaboard.com

SATA Y-Cable for ZimaBoard/ZimaBlade

shop.zimaboard.com

SATA Y-Cable for ZimaBoard & ZimaBlade – Expand NAS & RAID Storage

Expand your ZimaBoard or ZimaBlade with the SATA Y-Cable, supporting two 2.5" or 3.5" HDDs/SSDs. Ideal for NAS or RAID setups, it's compact and efficient—perfect for personal cloud storage, media servers, and data security.
shop.zimaboard.com shop.zimaboard.com

Deal: BENFEI Displayport to HDMI Adapter, Dp(Display Port) Male to Hdmi Female Converter with Audio for Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus and other brand(Dp to Hdmi) https://amzn.eu/d/1CvSX9D

Thanks for all the advise throughout this post.


#26

P

PHolder

Adam-F said:
all the hardware
Click to expand...
Zimaboard will sell you a mini-HDMI to HDMI for a fair price, and usually they discount their add-ons, so check that.

Also, the 232 is fine for SpinRite 6.1, but if money is more available and the deal is right, Steve did suggest the ones with more RAM would be useful for future versions of SpinRite 7, which will theoretically be able to multi-task. (So process two drives at once, as one example.) So it's not necessary, but could be beneficial if you follow the thinking.


#27

Jonathan_Benton

Jonathan_Benton

AlanD said:
A couple of thoughts with the original problem:-
1 Are the external USB 3.0 drives connected and powered before you boot the PC? The BIOS will only recognise devices that are live at POST time.
2 Try connecting the USB 3.0 drives to a USB 2.0 port. Some BIOS's only recognise USB 1 or 2. USB 3.0 is a bit new for BIOS.
Click to expand...
I've been following this thread with interest as I have a 4TB external SSD drive that is always connected to a USB 3 port (i.e. at startup) I was hoping the latest Spinrite would help but I can't get the "Mass Storage Drive" to show up for Spinrite to see it. I'm going to try your idea of moving it to a USB 2 port and see if that works. It makes sense when you think of the age of the BIOS. This is my main box and I am running an upgraded graphics card, 32mg of RAM additional cooling fans. It already had the latest and greatest Intel i7 chipset when I built it in 2015 so it is still quick with 8 drive slots, however, the motherboard only supports four SATA connections and four IDE connections. I love my beast and am hoping to get another couple of years out of the motherboard before building a completely new rig.


#28

P

PHolder

Jonathan_Benton said:
4TB external SSD drive that is always connected to a USB 3
Click to expand...
USB is not optimal for use with SpinRite. Because there are some BIOSes that had serious memory corruption bugs, SpinRite clamps the USB drive to something on the order of 128GiB (137GB) max. I thought there was a command line workaround if you know your machine isn't suffering the corruption bug, but I don't see it documented in the FAQ.


#29

A

AlanD

Jonathan_Benton said:
I've been following this thread with interest as I have a 4TB external SSD drive that is always connected to a USB 3 port (i.e. at startup) I was hoping the latest Spinrite would help but I can't get the "Mass Storage Drive" to show up for Spinrite to see it. I'm going to try your idea of moving it to a USB 2 port and see if that works. It makes sense when you think of the age of the BIOS. This is my main box and I am running an upgraded graphics card, 32mg of RAM additional cooling fans. It already had the latest and greatest Intel i7 chipset when I built it in 2015 so it is still quick with 8 drive slots, however, the motherboard only supports four SATA connections and four IDE connections. I love my beast and am hoping to get another couple of years out of the motherboard before building a completely new rig.
Click to expand...
It all seems to depend on the age of the BIOS and the features that are available. My current desktop is running UEFI, but does have BIOS compatibility, and I can see my NVMe drive as a BIOS device. Other people have reported that their machines won't even see SATA M.2 devices.


#30

Adam-F

Adam-F

Hi All

Just a quick update, I purchased a ZimaBoard and ran spinrite 6.1 with it, it worked like a charm.

But I have come away with one question.

Does spinrite have a DOS command, in the terminal after finishing a drive to safely shut down spinrite to power off the ZimaBoard?

I don't want to just switch off the board via the wall socket as it could damage the drive and lead to data loss.

Thanks


#31

S

Scott

Adam-F said:
Hi All

Just a quick update, I purchased a ZimaBoard and ran spinrite 6.1 with it, it worked like a charm.

But I have come away with one question.

Does spinrite have a DOS command, in the terminal after finishing a drive to safely shut down spinrite to power off the ZimaBoard?

I don't want to just switch off the board via the wall socket as it could damage the drive and lead to data loss.

Thanks
Click to expand...
From the FreeDOS site or GitHub, get the fdapm executable and add to the FreeDOS disk. After running SpinRite, run fdapm with the “poweroff” option

github.com

fdapm/fdapm.txt at master · FDOS/fdapm

APM / ACPI control/info, energy saving TSR/control, cache flush, rebooting... {a replacement for MS-DOS POWER} - FDOS/fdapm
github.com github.com


#32

ColbyBouma

ColbyBouma

SpinRite already comes with fdapm, and creates a REBOOT and SHUTDOWN alias in AUTOEXEC.BAT.


#33

Adam-F

Adam-F

ColbyBouma said:
SpinRite already comes with fdapm, and creates a REBOOT and SHUTDOWN alias in AUTOEXEC.BAT.
Click to expand...
So in the terminal I just have to type the commands in upper case and they will execute?


#34

ColbyBouma

ColbyBouma

Sorry, I was wrong. I believe ReadSpeed included fdapm. I just created a fresh SpinRite drive, and I don't see it.

Once you follow Scott's instructions, yes, just type "fdapm poweroff" in the terminal. It is not case sensitive.


#35

Adam-F

Adam-F

ColbyBouma said:
Sorry, I was wrong. I believe ReadSpeed included fdapm. I just created a fresh SpinRite drive, and I don't see it.

Once you follow Scott's instructions, yes, just type "fdapm poweroff" in the terminal. It is not case sensitive.
Click to expand...
Can I just add fdapm executable to the root directory of my spinrite USB, or do I need to create a fresh bootable drive?


#36

ColbyBouma

ColbyBouma

You can just add FDAPM.COM to the root of your SpinRite flash drive. Here's the link I downloaded it from:


There's another COM file in that BIN folder, but I don't think it's necessary. I tried only adding FDAPM.COM and running "fdapm poweroff", and it shut down my computer successfully.


#37

Adam-F

Adam-F

ColbyBouma said:
You can just add FDAPM.COM to the root of your SpinRite flash drive. Here's the link I downloaded it from:


There's another COM file in that BIN folder, but I don't think it's necessary. I tried only adding FDAPM.COM and running "fdapm poweroff", and it shut down my computer successfully.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will give it ago.


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