Issue with external HDD & SpinRite 6.1

[Adam-F]

Hi All,

Over this past weekend, I have been having ago with SpinRite 6.1 release 4.

I have some USB 3.0 external hard drive enclosures, that are powered by a separate power socket supply cables, with a USB 3.0 cable for data transfer.

I have noticed that spinrite doesn't recognise these drives, when in the enclosure.

I also have a 1TB laptop drive in an enclosure, that is bus powered via a USB 3.0 cable, which is recognised by spinrite.

Why is this the case?

Would it be best for me to purchased a ZimaBoard 232, to use with spinrite and all my drives directly?

Thanks

Adam

 

[PHolder]

Why is this the case?

It's unlikely anyone can reliably answer your question because it would probably be particular to your machine's particular BIOS.

It's really not recommended to use SpinRite 6.1 over USB. Yes it can sometimes work, but that depends highly on the BIOS and BIOS USB support is potentially fraught with dangers. (Older motherboards had a serious bug that could lead to corruption, so to prevent running into that SpinRite has to clamp down on drive size to avoid it.) SpinRite doesn't have USB drivers, so using it will be slower on USB drives. Additionally, the BIOS buffer sizes are smaller than what SpinRite uses when it can use its own drivers, so that also causes slow downs. Additionally USB to SATA/IDE is a translation layer, and some of the translations are preventing SpinRite from knowing all it could about the drive.

 

[Adam-F]

It's unlikely anyone can reliably answer your question because it would probably be particular to your machine's particular BIOS.

It's really not recommended to use SpinRite 6.1 over USB. Yes it can sometimes work, but that depends highly on the BIOS and BIOS USB support is potentially fraught with dangers. (Older motherboards had a serious bug that could lead to corruption, so to prevent running into that SpinRite has to clamp down on drive size to avoid it.) SpinRite doesn't have USB drivers, so using it will be slower on USB drives. Additionally, the BIOS buffer sizes are smaller than what SpinRite uses when it can use its own drivers, so that also causes slow downs. Additionally USB to SATA/IDE is a translation layer, and some of the translations are preventing SpinRite from knowing all it could about the drive.

So would the best safest option be to use a ZimaBoard 232 and the SATA ports to directly connect the drives and run spinrite?

 

[CSPea]

Hi Adam,
Yes, this idea works well for me, and evidently works too for a few others here on the forum.

Admittedly we need a spare display for the ZimaBoard, but I've streamlined my own setup by coupling-up with an otherwise near-end-of-life PC case.

The case's still-good PSU provides power to a drive-swappable caddy that's still mounted in the case, and the caddy's SATA cable emerges to connect to one of the ZimaBoard's SATA ports.

Yes it's true that with this setup the drive under test is being powered by a supply external to and independent from the ZimaBoard, but provided I ensure the hard drive (in the caddy) is powered up and spinning before I boot the ZimaBoard into life, this has worked trouble-free.

You can imagine other variations no doubt

 

[Adam-F]

Hi Adam,
Yes, this idea works well for me, and evidently works too for a few others here on the forum.

Admittedly we need a spare display for the ZimaBoard, but I've streamlined my own setup by coupling-up with an otherwise near-end-of-life PC case.

The case's still-good PSU provides power to a drive-swappable caddy that's still mounted in the case, and the caddy's SATA cable emerges to connect to one of the ZimaBoard's SATA ports.

Yes it's true that with this setup the drive under test is being powered by a supply external to and independent from the ZimaBoard, but provided I ensure the hard drive (in the caddy) is powered up and spinning before I boot the ZimaBoard into life, this has worked trouble-free.

You can imagine other variations no doubt

Hi @CSPea can you please provide images or links to your full setup if possible?

Does the ZimaBoard have a full size hdmi port?

As I have a second cable for additional use on my tv, so a setup on my desk will not be a problem.

It's just getting a stable setup going, so all drives are detected.

Thanks

 

[PHolder]

ZimaBoard

It's worthy of note that we're nearing that time of year (Black Friday) and that in past years Zima has had some better deals at that time. Last year, when I made my purchase, it saved me around 30%.

 

[Adam-F]

It's worthy of note that we're nearing that time of year (Black Friday) and that in past years Zima has had some better deals at that time. Last year, when I made my purchase, it saved me around 30%.

@PHolder great, do they have a site for purchase boards to the UK?

I will take a look throughout this week?

Thanks

 

[PHolder]

do they have a site for purchase boards to the UK?

I'm Canadian, they shipped it to me, and I don't think they have a problem shipping internationally, but it's not free, of course. I don't think they have a UK specific site. You could also check Amazon UK... they carry them in the US and Canada, but the prices are not as good, and there are none of the extras, that the main site has.

 

[ColbyBouma]

Another option is to buy an old PC from a thrift store or eBay. The range of CPU generations I would recommend is roughly Core 2 Duo to 6th-gen (Core i5-6500, for example). SpinRite does not need much compute power, so even the Core 2 Duo should be plenty. All of those will have plenty of RAM. Check inside the case to make sure there's easy access to the hard drive bay(s), and all the required cables are present.

 

[AlanD]

A couple of thoughts with the original problem:-
1 Are the external USB 3.0 drives connected and powered before you boot the PC? The BIOS will only recognise devices that are live at POST time.
2 Try connecting the USB 3.0 drives to a USB 2.0 port. Some BIOS's only recognise USB 1 or 2. USB 3.0 is a bit new for BIOS.

 

[Adam-F]

A couple of thoughts with the original problem:-
1 Are the external USB 3.0 drives connected and powered before you boot the PC? The BIOS will only recognise devices that are live at POST time.
2 Try connecting the USB 3.0 drives to a USB 2.0 port. Some BIOS's only recognise USB 1 or 2. USB 3.0 is a bit new for BIOS.

@AlanD They are connected to a active powered USB 3.0 Hub, which must be powered on before booting up the PC.Ala

If this is not done the keyboard & mouse won't work.

I hope this helps.

Thanks

 

[Scott]

@AlanD They are connected to a active powered USB 3.0 Hub, which must be powered on before booting up the PC.Ala

If this is not done the keyboard & mouse won't work.

I hope this helps.

Thanks

I would only expect drives directly attached to the motherboard to even have a chance of being recognized at boot up if they are externally powered. Did you try that?

 

[Adam-F]

I would only expect drives directly attached to the motherboard to even have a chance of being recognized at boot up if they are externally powered. Did you try that?

No I can't do that, due to physical space and the location and setup of my PC.

I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.

 

[Scott]

No I can't do that, due to physical space and the location and setup of my PC.

I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.

Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant USB drives directly attached to the USB ports on the motherboard (not to a USB hub) had the best chance of being recognized. But it sounds like your drives connected via a hub. Did you try these problematic USB drives connected directly to USB ports on the motherboard?

 

[PHolder]

I think a ZimaBoard or small form factor PC will do the trick.

They will allow booting a FreeDOS session to run SpinRite, but if you were already able to do that and the drives were not recognized then changing to another PC is not necessarily going to improve that if they remained USB connected. (Not claiming that was your situation, just making it clear is case others come along and misunderstand.) As I understand your intention, you intend to shuck the USB portion during SpinRite usage on the new machine, and that should certainly solve the issue of detection.

 

[Adam-F]

Sorry I wasn’t clear, I meant USB drives directly attached to the USB ports on the motherboard (not to a USB hub) had the best chance of being recognized. But it sounds like your drives connected via a hub. Did you try these problematic USB drives connected directly to USB ports on the motherboard?

Yes the drives have been connected to a USB hub, not directly to the motherboard itself.

The drives are all fully functional. I am just trying to get a setup for future purposes.

I currently have my PC about 5 foot away from my desk, I have active cables coming from the PC for USB, HDMI etc to my tv which acts as a monitor.

Hence why a Hub is been used for all my USB devices.

ZimaBoard or small form factor PC would work great on my desk to use with spinrite and multiple drives at one.

 

[Adam-F]

They will allow booting a FreeDOS session to run SpinRite, but if you were already able to do that and the drives were not recognized then changing to another PC is not necessarily going to improve that if they remained USB connected. (Not claiming that was your situation, just making it clear is case others come along and misunderstand.) As I understand your intention, you intend to shuck the USB portion during SpinRite usage on the new machine, and that should certainly solve the issue of detection.

But the ZimaBoard has direct SATA ports which my PC does have.

So having a board with SATA ports should work right.

Then I can have a small footprint setup for multiple drives connected directly at once.

 

[PHolder]

multiple drives connected directly at once

The supplied power supply with the ZimaBoard is not sufficient to power multiple drives, or maybe even one spinner. Steve recommended one from Amazon. See here for one recommendation: https://forums.grc.com/threads/zimaboard-and-ide-drives.1414/#post-10610

 

[Adam-F]

The supplied power supply with the ZimaBoard is not sufficient to power multiple drives, or maybe even one spinner. Steve recommended one from Amazon. See here for one recommendation: https://forums.grc.com/threads/zimaboard-and-ide-drives.1414/#post-10610

The power supply you posted is not available in the UK.

But is this one suitable?

24V 3A Power Supply Adapter Converter AC 100V~240V to DC 24 Volt 3 Amp 72W Transformer with 5.5x2.5mm Plug for 5050 3528 LED Strip Light 3D Printer LED Driver CCTV Security System LCD Monitor https://amzn.eu/d/cBZA90b

Is the ZimaBoard 232 standard power supply able to power one HDD or SSD laptop drive or PC drive one at a time?

 

[PHolder]

is this one suitable?

No, that's 24V and you want 12V. This one is the one you probably want. https://www.amazon.co.uk/COLM-Switching-100-240v-Transformers-Accessories-12V-10A/dp/B07J43TMYW it seems an exact comparable to the one Steve listed.