How to: Boot and Run SpinRite 6.X on CSM capable UEFI Machines

[Seth Rosenberg]

Hello all. Not new to SpinRite, but new to the forum. Currently working through trying to get SpinRite 6.1 to boot on a Dell Inspiron 3910, with the newer Dell BIOS that does not support legacy. Was able to turn off RAID (not needed anyway), turn off "Enable Secure Boot", and enabled "Audit Mode", under "Secure Boot mode." I also added the SpinRite 6.1 created USB as a Boot Option. I press F12 on boot, select my created boot option, and get, “no bootable devices found.”

When adding SpinRite USB as a boot option in the bios, Dell prompts first for the file name and boot option name. I select command.com after navigating to the correct device and name the bootable option SR. Attached are to images.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Thank you.

 

[PHolder]

Dell BIOS that does not support legacy.

You cannot run SpinRite 6.1 or earlier if you cannot boot FreeDOS, and you cannot boot FreeDOS if you cannot boot a legacy OS. You need a different setup (you could consider spending money on a cheap used system or one of the ZimaBoards like Steve uses for development.) Optionally, you can wait some number of years (estimated) until SpinRite 7 becomes available.

 

[Scott]

Hey @PHolder no... sadly. I get the F12 boot menu (on the LENOVO X1 Carbon) I select the boot device and about 2-3 seconds later, I get the same boot menu.... sigh ! Ill keep playing and follow the suggestion that steve made and post the results at some point over my weekend. THANK YOU

This is confusing....so you've got a USB that will boot into the Bootable executable, but if you copy spinrite to that USB, the USB will no longer boot?

 

[coco3004]

This is confusing....so you've got a USB that will boot into the Bootable executable, but if you copy spinrite to that USB, the USB will no longer boot?

No I think there is a miscommunication... Let me correct the record (sorry if I was confusing) I mean BOOTABLE will create the usb but NOT boot from that or from what spinrite.exe creates. Sorry for the confusion... I should have corrected that at the start sorry. BUT none the less it will not boot so I am thinking that the lenovo x1 carbon may not behave as it should (I note there is another post here with the same machine.) I will post any resolution to this issue If I fix it..

Thanks and sorry again..

 

[Steve]

No I think there is a miscommunication... Let me correct the record (sorry if I was confusing) I mean BOOTABLE will create the usb but NOT boot from that or from what spinrite.exe creates. Sorry for the confusion... I should have corrected that at the start sorry. BUT none the less it will not boot so I am thinking that the lenovo x1 carbon may not behave as it should (I note there is another post here with the same machine.) I will post any resolution to this issue If I fix it..

Thanks and sorry again..

No problem, really. What we know is that Intel officially declared the BIOS to be “dead” about 10 years ago and for UEFI firmware to be the new official firmware for machines. Overall, this is a fantastic and much needed “catch up”, since the design of the BIOS was never expandable or updatable and BOY was it growing old. The downside of this change was a COMPLETE lack of compatibility with any earlier software (like any DOS and anything that depended upon it) — like SpinRite.

For this reason, virtually ALL such systems voluntarily included a CSM (Compatibility Support Module) which added the legacy BIOS to the newer UEFI so that such systems offered both.

And since then, predictably, over time, newer systems have dropped their support for the BIOS by no longer bothering the include a "legacy boot mode" or "CSM".

It's because I knew that DOS and the BIOS were ultimately dead ends that I decided to halt work on SpinRite 6.1 where that work would not be portable to a UEFI world. SpinRite v7 will dual boot on either BIOS or UEFI.

But for today, the question anyone and everyone wishing to use SpinRite v6.1 on any machine they haven't previously used with SpinRite 6.0, is whether that machine has “retro” support for the BIOS that will allow DOS to boot and SpinRite to run.

 

[PHolder]

I mean BOOTABLE will create the usb but NOT boot from that

AHA, now it all makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification. So you've searched your BIOS for an option to enable a CSM and found none? In general, for Legacy Booting, you need to disable secure boot and enable the CSM. If you're unable to do this, then it's likely the case your PC cannot do a legacy boot at all, and you need to wait for SpinRite 7. In the mean time, you could invest in a cheap used PC or you could check out the ZimaBoard that Steve uses for development.

 

[coco3004]

AHA, now it all makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification. So you've searched your BIOS for an option to enable a CSM and found none? In general, for Legacy Booting, you need to disable secure boot and enable the CSM. If you're unable to do this, then it's likely the case your PC cannot do a legacy boot at all, and you need to wait for SpinRite 7. In the mean time, you could invest in a cheap used PC or you could check out the ZimaBoard that Steve uses for development.

Hey, yes sorry for the confusion... Might have to get an older laptop as suggested and see what I can come up with. THANKS AGAIN for all your help...

 

[coco3004]

No problem, really. What we know is that Intel officially declared the BIOS to be “dead” about 10 years ago and for UEFI firmware to be the new official firmware for machines. Overall, this is a fantastic and much needed “catch up”, since the design of the BIOS was never expandable or updatable and BOY was it growing old. The downside of this change was a COMPLETE lack of compatibility with any earlier software (like any DOS and anything that depended upon it) — like SpinRite.

For this reason, virtually ALL such systems voluntarily included a CSM (Compatibility Support Module) which added the legacy BIOS to the newer UEFI so that such systems offered both.

And since then, predictably, over time, newer systems have dropped their support for the BIOS by no longer bothering the include a "legacy boot mode" or "CSM".

It's because I knew that DOS and the BIOS were ultimately dead ends that I decided to halt work on SpinRite 6.1 where that work would not be portable to a UEFI world. SpinRite v7 will dual boot on either BIOS or UEFI.

But for today, the question anyone and everyone wishing to use SpinRite v6.1 on any machine they haven't previously used with SpinRite 6.0, is whether that machine has “retro” support for the BIOS that will allow DOS to boot and SpinRite to run.

Thanks Steve, all good, I think I will have to find a check PC/LAPTOP that I can boot SR6.1 with and use that for my system to test the mass storage devices that I am trying to "fix" with SR... THANK YOU Once again STEVE... and team really appreciate it.

 

[Steve]

Once again STEVE... and team really appreciate it.

It's a terrific team of very helpful and knowledgeable people.

 

[Adam-TheMan-Tyler]

Apologies if this question has been asked and answered already. I'm in a spot where all systems in my home are UEFI only. I'd like to throw something together for running SpinRite on drives. Steve, you mentioned during your development process on the podcast that you had run across an all one one motherboard/cpu combo device that seemed to work well for your testing. That still seem like a good option?

Refresh my memory, is SpinRite 6.1 compatible with NVMe drives or does it have to be SATA?

 

[ColbyBouma]

an all one one motherboard/cpu combo device

The ZimaBoard: https://shop.zimaboard.com/products/zimaboard-single-board-server

If you want to connect 2 3.5" HDDs at the same time, make sure to buy a larger power supply: https://www.amazon.com/Facmogu-Switching-Converter-5-5x2-5mm-5-5x2-1mm/dp/B0711Q5B49
I can't vouch for that power supply. I just matches the specifications from the ZimaBoard manual: https://www.zimaboard.com/download/ZimaBoard_User_Manual_220118.pdf

is SpinRite 6.1 compatible with NVMe drives or does it have to be SATA?

Sort of. If the BIOS cooperates, SpinRite will be able to see it. However, it won't be full speed, and it won't be using 6.1's new low level drivers. SpinRite currently works best on SATA and IDE drives.

 

[Steve]

@Adam-TheMan-Tyler : What Colby wrote (above) is 100% correct. I'm still loving the ZimaBoard and it should be regarded as the "reference platform" for all SpinRite -- and other work -- going forward. I purchased one of their newer “ZimaBlade” devices but it doesn't turn out to be any less expensive once RAM and Power, etc, are added. And it's less capable. So I'm sticking with the original ZimaBoard. And the smallest of the three is 100% fine.

 

[DrBunsen]

@Steve - I've run into a situation similar to others in this thread. I recently bought a used Shuttle DS77U mini PC. Since it came with a WD SSD with an unknown amount of use/abuse, I thought it would be good to run SpinRite on it to verify/refresh all the cells. Unfortunately, while the BIOS has options for Secure Boot as well as UEFI/Legacy (as "Boot Mode Select" option), there isn't an explicit option for CSM. I suspect that the "Legacy" Boot Mode Select combines CSM and BIOS modes since (when set to Legacy and with Secure Boot disabled) I can boot with a flashdrive formatted with GRC's BootAble utility. And once booted, I can run SpinRite from that flashdrive. However, I can't boot with a flashdrive when it's set up using SpinRite 6.1 R3, even if I use the same flashdrive that works when set up with BootAble. (And, yes, that same SpinRite-formatted flashdrive boots on other PCs.) I'm not dead in the water, since I do have that BootAble workaround, but I do find it strange, and don't know if it's worthy of attention on your part.

As an aside, after hearing the discussion a number of years ago on Security Now about running multiple home firewalls, I started running two firewalls in series running OPNsense (I switched from PFsense a few years ago). It's nice not having to worry about things like WLAN traffic or camera firmware having direct network access to our PCs.

Inside PCs (trusted) > FIREWALL > WLAN/cameras/Alexae/TVs/etc. (somewhat trusted) > FIREWALL > Internet (here there be dragons)

The two firewalls are also Shuttle DS77U's, which draw 10 to 15 watts each, and are fanless/silent. I bought the extra DS77U in case one of the other two dies. And because it is a spare, if you'd like me to ship it to you to test for a week or two, I'd be happy to do so. Then again, there might already be a fix for the above issue that I didn't notice when poking about the forums.

 

[DanR]

I can boot with a flashdrive formatted with GRC's BootAble utility. And once booted, I can run SpinRite from that flashdrive. However, I can't boot with a flashdrive when it's set up using SpinRite 6.1 R3, even if I use the same flashdrive that works when set up with BootAble. (And, yes, that same SpinRite-formatted flashdrive boots on other PCs.) I'm not dead in the water, since I do have that BootAble workaround, but I do find it strange, and don't know if it's worthy of attention on your part.

@DrBunsen,

This behavior appears to be the result of a line that Steve erroneously and inadvertently left in Config.sys file on bootable flash drives created by SR61.exe Release 3. Steve is aware of it and will fix it in a future release.

Meanwhile, if you are comfortable with editing the config.sys file, you can make the easy fix yourself right now.

Simply edit config.sys (either at Windows level using Notepad or at DOS level using EDIT) and remove the following line:

INSTALL=DOWNSIZE.COM C:

Save the file and re-boot with the flash drive.

SpinRite 6.1 rel 3 will now boot and run without further ado.

 

[DrBunsen]

Yep - that fixed it. Thanks!

 

[KenB]

I used SpinRite 6.0 for 10 years on my old PCs, no problems. My new WIndows 11 PC has a GigaByte B660M DS3H AX DDR4 mbd (with i3-12100 3.3 GHz CPU), which is CSM-capable. IsBootSecure did not show it on the insecure list, but said its CA Root Cert is not in the Trusted Root Certification Authorities store. So I clicked on "Install Certificate" in the PKf, which showed it installed successfully. But when I re-ran IsBootSecure, it still showed the CA Root Cert as not in the store and not trusted. I repeated the "Install Certificate" process and yet again later, with the same result. I mention that in case it could cause my system not to boot from the known-good USB, which Bootable said had installed successfully. In the BIOS I turned off Secure Mode (don't use Bitlocker), activated CSM Support, moved the USB to first in the boot order, saved and exited with no indication of a problem. But then the system rebooted into Windows. I went back into the BIOS, and saw it had unilaterally turned off CSM Support. So I re-enabled it, but got the same old reboot. I kept repeating this, trying every possible setup variation, but always the same result: Secure Mode stayed off, but the BIOS never left CSM Support on, sometimes also moving the USB down in the boot order. Since the firmware needed an update, I put the files on the Bootable USB. Sure enough, the system booted from the USB just fine in UEFI mode, installed the firmware, and re-booted back to the EFI Shell on the USB - nothing wrong with the USB. The BIOS just always turns off CSM Support between save-&-exit and rebooting. Btw, I thought I shouldn't keep Secure Mode off, so I re-enabled it in the BIOS, and guess what ... now IsBootSecure keeps showing that Secure Mode hasn't turned back on! I usually enjoy figuring things out, but I'm just baffled. I'd love some help at this point.

 

[DanR]

@KenB , I looked up your GigaByte B660M DS3H AX DDR4 motherboard, downloaded the manual, and found the following. It looks like you also need to configure Storage Boot Option Control and Other PCI Devices for Legacy?

CSM Support
Enables or disables UEFI CSM (Compatibility Support Module) to support a legacy PC boot process.
Disabled Disables UEFI CSM and supports UEFI BIOS boot process only.
Enabled Enables UEFI CSM.

LAN PXE Boot Option ROM
Allows you to select whether to enable the legacy option ROM for the LAN controller.
This item is configurable only when CSM Support is set to Enabled.

Storage Boot Option Control
Allows you to select whether to enable the UEFI or legacy option ROM for the storage device controller.
Do not launch Disables option ROM.
UEFI Enables UEFI option ROM only.
Legacy Enables legacy option ROM only.
This item is configurable only when CSM Support is set to Enabled.

Other PCI devices
Allows you to select whether to enable the UEFI or Legacy option ROM for the PCI device controller other
than the LAN, storage device, and graphics controllers.
Do not launch Disables option ROM.
UEFI Enables UEFI option ROM only.

Legacy Enables legacy option ROM only.
This item is configurable only when CSM Support is set to Enabled.

 

[PHolder]

CA Root Cert is not in the Trusted Root Certification Authorities store

That tool can't fix the problem that way. The boot certificates are ONLY managed by the UEFI (what some call the BIOS). That install button is not meant to be used... it's a consequence of the Windows subsystem Steve used to display the certificate info in a dialog.

 

[KenB]

Thanks, Dan. Unfortunately, I had already configured Storage Boot Option Control and Other PCI Devices for Legacy. Tho the BIOS setting for CSM Support was 'on' when I saved and exited, it still booted into Windows. Going back into the BIOS, it had saved all my other setting changes, but not CSM Support. I did notice the Boot Override setting on the Save-&-Exit page. The manual says: "Allows you to select a device to boot immediately. Press <Enter> on the device you select and select Yes to confirm. Your system will restart automatically and boot from that device." The USB was listed, so I selected it, pressed <Enter>, then Yes. The system restarted automatically but did NOT boot from the USB. But as I wrote before, it did boot from the USB when I flashed the BIOS, and it rebooted into the USB to an EFI prompt.

I also tried it tonight on a Win10 Dell Latitude E7240 Ultrabook I own but rarely use. After re-configuring its BIOS, the USB booted right up, as did 6.1 when I typed "spinrite" at the C:\> prompt. The Gigabyte B660M on the Win11 desktop PC should be but isn't doing the same, for any reason I can see.

 

[KenB]

PHolder, since that tool can't fix the problem, can I just ignore the boot certificate not being trusted, or is it important enough for me to spend scarce free time learning how to install it?