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Can Spinrite be run with a wireless keyboard?

#1

R

Rog7

Once SpinRite 6.1 loads I can't get past the first screen because my PC only has a wireless keyboard. Even have to physically power off/on to reload the PC.


#2

D

DanR

@Rog7

By "first" screen, do you mean the big blue SpinRite 6.1 splash logo? And is it a bit distorted?

If this is the case, there is a simple fix for your issue. You will need to make a simple edit to the Config.SYS file (it is a small simple text file).

Locate and delete the SPLASH line from the file. Save the file and re-boot. SpinRite will run just fine now.


#3

R

Rog7

DanR said:
@Rog7

By "first" screen, do you mean the big blue SpinRite 6.1 splash logo? And is it a bit distorted?

If this is the case, there is a simple fix for your issue. You will need to make a simple edit to the Config.SYS file (it is a small simple text file).

Locate and delete the SPLASH line from the file. Save the file and re-boot. SpinRite will run just fine now.
Click to expand...
Yes I do mean the splash screen, it says press any key to continue or ESC to exit.

But SpinRite doesn't recognise a wireless keyboard and mouse so I can't get to the next screen.

Even if I do, how can I specify which drive to check if I have no means of input to Spinrite?


#4

D

DanR

@Rog7

Ah ... Need more information

Are you are referring the Copyright screen with your user name displayed just above the bottom?

Are you booting with a SpinRite USB thumb drive?

Are there USB ports on the L&R sides of the computer, or on the F&R panels?


#5

miquelfire

miquelfire

If the wireless is bluetooth, it won't work as that is handled by the OS, which SpinRite does not have support for. If you're using a dongle, you might need to change which USB port it's plugged into.


#6

R

Rog7

miquelfire said:
If the wireless is bluetooth, it won't work as that is handled by the OS, which SpinRite does not have support for. If you're using a dongle, you might need to change which USB port it's plugged into.
Click to expand...
It is a dongle. Why would moving it to another port enable the wireless keyboard?


#7

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
Why would moving it to another port enable the wireless keyboard?
Click to expand...
If the dongle and thumb drive are on opposite sides of the computer they are likely on different USB controllers. That can make a difference.

I normally have my keyboard in a USB port on the back panel and my SpinRite boot drive in a USB port on the front panel. I never have a problem with the keyboard not responding properly.


#8

P

PHolder

You're at the mercy of your BIOS support for the keyboard. Configure your SpinRite dongle to not load SpinRite automatically (you'll need to potentially unhide the system files and comment out the splash screen and the launch.) That way you should land on the DOS command line, and test if you can type or not, which of course you will need to be able to do to then launch SpinRite.


#9

cschuber

cschuber

Depends. Yes, it depends on whether your BIOS supports a Bluetooth keyboard. But even then, Bluetooth keyboards can be a PITA to work within the BIOS and when doing low level development, like kernel development (or as Steve does Spinrite development). I use Logitech wireless keyboards using the RF dongle that came with the keyboard. The advantage is it behaves like a wired keyboard and when plugged into a KVM switch there's no fuss when switching from one computer to another.

I use my wireless keyboards and mice with their RF dongle. They behave like wired keyboard and mouse with my KVM switch.


#10

S

Scott

And I’ve used a wireless Logitech keyboard connected to my Dell with no problems running SR


#11

R

Rog7

Scott said:
And I’ve used a wireless Logitech keyboard connected to my Dell with no problems running SR
Click to expand...
My wireless keyboard is Logitech too and, with a USB dongle.

I now have a wired keyboard but still can't get past the SpinRite splash screen. I've tested the keyboard in Windows OK.

This keyboard is USB. My PC has a PS/2 socket on the back, might it work if I get a USB to PS/2 adapter?

(My PC is not an over-the-counter model, it was built for me by ChillBlast in 2020)


#12

P

PHolder

Rog7 said:
My PC has a PS/2 socket on the back, might it work if I get a USB to PS/2 adapter?
Click to expand...
In general all BIOSes support PS/2 based ports in the BIOS... but no one can know for sure what will work but you and your BIOS manufacturer, unfortunately, so you're stuck experimenting. I can suggest, try different ports. In particular if you have USB 2 versus USB 3, try the USB 2 first for a USB keyboard.


#13

S

Scott

Rog7 said:
My wireless keyboard is Logitech too and, with a USB dongle.

I now have a wired keyboard but still can't get past the SpinRite splash screen. I've tested the keyboard in Windows OK.
Click to expand...

In the config.sys for the boot drive, REM the splash screen device driver

In the autoexec.bat, REM the last line that starts SpinRite

Now you should be able to boot and get to an A:\> prompt


#14

R

Rog7

Scott said:
In the config.sys for the boot drive, REM the splash screen device driver

In the autoexec.bat, REM the last line that starts SpinRite

Now you should be able to boot and get to an A:\> prompt
Click to expand...
The SpinRite drive only contains EDIT.COM and SPINRITE.EXE


#15

miquelfire

miquelfire

You need to change Windows to show hidden and system files (they're hidden by default, like file extensions)


#16

R

Rog7

miquelfire said:
You need to change Windows to show hidden and system files (they're hidden by default, like file extensions)
Click to expand...
It is showing hidden and system files and file extensions, I always have it that way.

Maybe I should download and reinstall SpinRite 6.1?


#17

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
The SpinRite drive only contains EDIT.COM and SPINRITE.EXE
Click to expand...
Hiding files at Windows level and at DOS level are two different things.

At the DOS command prompt (after booting SpinRite) execute the following command:

attribute -h c:\config.sys

Then do a dir. config.sys should now be visible.

Or: Simply edit config.sys on the bootable drive at Windows level using Notepad, save it, and reboot SpinRite.


#18

R

Rog7

DanR said:
Hiding files at Windows level and at DOS level are two different things.

At the DOS command prompt (after booting SpinRite) execute the following command:

attribute -h c:\config.sys

Then do a dir. config.sys should now be visible.

Or: Simply edit config.sys on the bootable drive at Windows level using Notepad, save it, and reboot SpinRite.
Click to expand...
The whole point of this thread is that I cannot use a keyboard after booting SpinRite.

Please explain further "edit config.sys on the bootable drive at Windows level". Are you saying I should copy config.sys from my Windows drive to the SpinRite drive? Where do I find it on my windows drive?


#19

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
Please explain further "edit config.sys on the bootable drive at Windows level". Are you saying I should copy config.sys from my Windows drive to the SpinRite drive? Where do I find it on my windows drive?
Click to expand...
NO!!!

I assume you are using a bootable USB drive generated by running spinrite.exe as a windows app?

Then open Windows Explorer and view the SpinRite boot drive. Do see files there on the SR drive??

Then right click config.sys on the SpinRite boot drive, click "Open with Notepad" to open it for editing.


#20

R

Rog7

DanR said:
NO!!!

I assume you are using a bootable USB drive generated by running spinrite.exe as a windows app?

Then open Windows Explorer and view the SpinRite boot drive. Do see files there on the SR drive??

Then right click config.sys on the SpinRite boot drive, click "Open with Notepad" to open it for editing.
Click to expand...
The SpinRite drive only contains EDIT.COM and SPINRITE.EXE .

Or should I say that's all that Windows Explorer lists when hidden and system files and file extensions are shown.

I have just downloaded a fresh copy of SpinRite 6.1 and generated the boot USB drive running as administrator. The resultant drive still shows just EDIT.COM and SPINRITE.EXE .


#21

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
I have just downloaded a fresh copy of SpinRite 6.1 and generated the boot USB drive running as administrator. The resultant drive still shows just EDIT.COM and SPINRITE.EXE .
Click to expand...
The files are there. They are hidden.

In Windows 10 Explorer, if I click View then over to the right I see two boxes checked: "File name extensions" and "Hidden Items".

I see 8 files in my SpinRite boot drive. If I clear the cheek box for "Hidden items" I see only spinrite.exe and edit.com.

You do not have hidden files properly unhidden.


#22

R

Rog7

DanR said:
The files are there. They are hidden.

In Windows 10 Explorer, if I click View then over to the right I see two boxes checked: "File name extensions" and "Hidden Items".

I see 8 files in my SpinRite boot drive. If I clear the cheek box for "Hidden items" I see only spinrite.exe and edit.com.

You do not have hidden files properly unhidden.
Click to expand...

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#23

R

Rog7

I have Spacesniffer which displays a map of all files on a drive. It does show all 8 files on SpinRite USB and I've discovered that if I right click a file I can edit it with Notepad. Now I'll boot it and try the keyboard.


That's great, but why are they always hidden to Explorer?
...and having edited and resaved files, they are visible in Explorer.

That hasn't improved the situation. Still can't use a keyboard after booting SpinRite drive even at the C: prompt.


#24

D

DanR

How many USB ports does your device have?

Where/how are they physically located?


#25

R

Rog7

DanR said:
How many USB ports does your device have?

Where/how are they physically located?
Click to expand...
6 I think at the back and difficult to get to, 2 probably USB2 the rest USB3. There's an extension from one of the USB3 to a USB3 hub (3 with power, 4 without) on which there is the dongle for the wireless keyboard and mouse (the wired keyboard it works fine in Windows from here), also one goes to the monitor. The monitor itself is HDMI but it has 2 USB ports, unused, which are fed from the USB hub.

On the top are 2 USB3 one of which I use for the SpinRite drive. (the wired keyboard it works fine in Windows from these)

I have also tried the SpinRite drive in the USBhub, it boots OK but the keyboard, in one of the 2 on top, does not.

I'll try connecting the wired keyboard to one of the USB2 at the back. It'll take me a while, get back to you within the hour.


#26

R

Rog7

Hello again DanR,

Not a great success.
I didn't know my PC as well as I thought. The two USB sockets on the top are USB2, not 3 as I thought.
On the back are two USB 3.2 blue and two USB 3.2 red. Also two USB2 beside the PS/2 socket so I tried one on these.

Wired keyboard worked fine in Windows but not at all in SpinRite.

I have a PS/2 to USB adapter arriving tomorrow or Tuesday, let's hope the PS/2 works.


#27

miquelfire

miquelfire

1754846755361.png

As I said, in Folder options, there's a "Hide protected operating system files" that you need to uncheck. You most likely haven't unchecked it (I normally keep it checked because I normally don't have a reason to mess with files it keeps hidden)


#28

R

Rog7

miquelfire said:
View attachment 1740
As I said, in Folder options, there's a "Hide protected operating system files" that you need to uncheck. You most likely haven't unchecked it (I normally keep it checked because I normally don't have a reason to mess with files it keeps hidden)
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, miquelfire, I thought I'd checked that setting but I clearly hadn't.
All visible now.


#29

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
Not a great success.
I didn't know my PC as well as I thought. The two USB sockets on the top are USB2, not 3 as I thought.
On the back are two USB 3.2 blue and two USB 3.2 red. Also two USB2 beside the PS/2 socket so I tried one on these.
Click to expand...
Ouch! The BIOS predates USB 3 thus the BIOS does not know USB 3 so USB 3 will not work.
Rog7 said:
I have a PS/2 to USB adapter arriving tomorrow or Tuesday, let's hope the PS/2 works.
Click to expand...
That sounds like your best hope. PS/2 would be BIOS compatible.


#30

P

PHolder

@Rog7
Perhaps I'm just crazy... but... it feels to me that any respectable BIOS would use the same keyboard support in the BIOS as it does in a legacy OS. Are you able to use your keyboard to get into your BIOS and navigate around?


#31

R

Rog7

The USB2 to PS/2 adapter arrived today but it made no difference.
Actually I think the adapter may be the problem because the keyboard is never recognised, not even in Windows, when using the adapter.
Windows does recognise it when plugged into a USB socket.
I'll either have to get another adapter (from a different source) or find someone who can lend me a PS/2 keyboard.


#32

D

DanR

Rog7 said:
The USB2 to PS/2 adapter arrived today but it made no difference.
Actually I think the adapter may be the problem because the keyboard is never recognised, not even in Windows, when using the adapter.
Click to expand...
You might consider taking a look at the BIOS settings to see the PS/2 port is disabled?


#33

A

AlanD

On some machines, the PS/2 ports are only scanned at a cold start. If something is plugged in later, it is not seen until a complete powerdown/restart cycle.


#34

peterblaise

peterblaise

Corerct, PS2 sockets are not intended to be
hot pluggable, in my experience:

https://www.google.com/search?q=PS2+sockets+are+not+intended+to+be+hot+pluggable

Set everything up.

Then attach the power cord.

Then turn it on.


#35

R

Rog7

I'm tearing my hair out here, seem to be going backwards:

I've now got a genuine PS/2 wired keyboard which works fine in Windows.

My MoBo is a Gigabyte Aorus B450 which has shown an Aorus splash screen, for the past 5 years. Today I see a Chillblast splash screen (I got the PC from them), I have no idea why.

Moreover, with the SR USB set to boot #1:
  • I boot the system (the SR USB's light remains on),
  • the Chillblast screen comes up,
  • the SR USB's light goes off,
  • then it boots Windows.
So, now that I have the means (keyboard) to run and use SR, the MoBo refuses to boot it.


#36

D

DanR

Retry booting without the PS/2 keyboard plugged in. Does SpinRite then boot up?

Again, I think you need to go into the BIOS settings and look for anything related to PS/2. And also look at the boot settings. Something changes when the BIOS detects the PS/2 keyboard.


#37

peterblaise

peterblaise

SImplify.

In Windows delete SRSPLASH.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT from the
SpinRite boot USB.

Power off.

Unplug the Windows boot HDD.

Power on and boot into CMOS BIOS.

Configure CMOS BIOS to boot yada yada USB Legacy, Secure Off,
whatever.

Power off.

Power back on, wait or hot-key to boot to the SpinRite boot USB.

Something like that.

If you move the SpinRite boot USB around, power off in between,
until you find a USB port that it will boot from.

If and when you finally successfully boot to a SpinRite boot USB,
decide what to do - power off and re-add the Windows HDD,
whatever, and try to boot to the SpinRite USB again.

- - - - -

Test the SpinRite boot USB in another computer - can it boot
anywhere?


#38

R

Rog7

peterblaise said:
SImplify.

In Windows delete SRSPLASH.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT from the
SpinRite boot USB.

Power off.

Unplug the Windows boot HDD.

Power on and boot into CMOS BIOS.

Configure CMOS BIOS to boot yada yada USB Legacy, Secure Off,
whatever.

Power off.

Power back on, wait or hot-key to boot to the SpinRite boot USB.

Something like that.

If you move the SpinRite boot USB around, power off in between,
until you find a USB port that it will boot from.

If and when you finally successfully boot to a SpinRite boot USB,
decide what to do - power off and re-add the Windows HDD,
whatever, and try to boot to the SpinRite USB again.

- - - - -

Test the SpinRite boot USB in another computer - can it boot
anywhere?
Click to expand...
Good suggestion but unplugging the Win10 SSD is impractical as it's a NVMe SSD and I'd rather not touch it.


#39

peterblaise

peterblaise

I understand, I have an HP Stream laptop where the SSD is soldered in
place on the main system memory bus board and cannot be gotten
out of the way to simplify the computer while attempting to teach it
to boot from a SpinRite boot USB drive in order to troubleshoot
another USB drive.

Perhaps change CMOS BIOS to prefer booting from USB, deprecating
booting from SSD - anything to stop Windows intruding as the go-to
default?

The goal is booting from USB, and if we cannot simplify the computer
one way, we must try another.

Or, of course, another computer.

Used computers that can run SpinRite are cheap and free - ask
everyone if they have an old computer in their closet that you can
cleanup and 'donate' or recycle for them.

;-)


#40

S

Scott

If I were in your shoes, I'd:
  1. Download Rufus if you don't have it already https://rufus.ie/en/
  2. Use Rufus to create a USB with MS-DOS. Rufus will go and fetch the last version of MS-DOS (the one that was embedded in Windows ME) and install it onto a USB. That will just boot to a DOS prompt.
  3. Change whatever settings in your BIOS that you need to in order to successfully boot from that USB and have your keyboard working
  4. Make another USB with Rufus and select FreeDOS as the operating system. Again, Rufus should download FreeDOS and create the USB.
  5. Double check that it boots and keyboard works with FreeDOS
  6. Once you've validated that, try the SpinRite USB.


#41

peterblaise

peterblaise

If MS-DOS works and FreeDos doesn't ...


#42

P

PHolder

Rog7 said:
My MoBo is a Gigabyte Aorus B450 which has shown an Aorus splash screen, for the past 5 years. Today I see a Chillblast splash screen (I got the PC from them), I have no idea why.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're seeing an image supplied by the BIOS/UEFI boot that you never used to see. Did you make changes to boot settings? It sounds like it's looking at the USB device and deciding it can't boot it for some reason, likely because of secure boot settings, or the lack of a CSM or something similar.


#43

R

Rog7

PHolder said:
Sounds like you're seeing an image supplied by the BIOS/UEFI boot that you never used to see. Did you make changes to boot settings? It sounds like it's looking at the USB device and deciding it can't boot it for some reason, likely because of secure boot settings, or the lack of a CSM or something similar.
Click to expand...
There have been changes to the boot settings so I decided to print the relevant pages of the online manual that describes the BIOS settings. Then I could go through the BIOS while referring to the manual.

While setting up the BIOS info print, my PS/2 keyboard stopped working (wireless one is OK) then my printer broke after 3 of the 17 pages. It's a 'send to service centre' fault. It's 7 years old so I'll buy a new one.

It's been one of those weeks. I'm sure this is not new to most on this blog, but I've now joined the club!


#44

S

Scott

Rog7 said:
There have been changes to the boot settings so I decided to print the relevant pages of the online manual that describes the BIOS settings. Then I could go through the BIOS while referring to the manual.
Click to expand...
Rough week! While you’re checking things, maybe make sure you’re on the most recent firmware


#45

R

Rog7

Great news and frustrating news:

In the BIOS I found the CSM was disabled so enabled it. Also found a Secure Boot option which I disabled. Then the boot list of 5 drives which included 'UEFI: Intenso Rainbow line, partition 1' (the SpinRite drive) was now a list of 13 including 'Intenso Rainbow line' so I made that boot #1 and SpinRite booted perfectly (y)
I have since searched the MoBo manual for secure boot and find no reference to it.

Frustratingly the SATA to USB adapter I have for attaching the HDD for testing doesn't appear to be working, not even in Windows. I'll have to look into that :unsure:


#46

P

PHolder

@Rog7 I presume you would be receiving an error message if your CMOS settings were resetting, but if you're having unexplained changes to them, perhaps you might want to consider whether or not to change your CMOS battery. (How old is it and/or the machine... if it's been 5+ years it might need a replacement.)


#47

R

Rog7

PHolder said:
@Rog7 I presume you would be receiving an error message if your CMOS settings were resetting, but if you're having unexplained changes to them, perhaps you might want to consider whether or not to change your CMOS battery. (How old is it and/or the machine... if it's been 5+ years it might need a replacement.)
Click to expand...
The PC is 5 years old but it has rarely been powered off. I worked 30+ years in IT, mainframes which frequently broke on powering up so it was safer to keep powered on and old habits die hard.

If the CMOS battery is only used when there's no power it should have quite a bit of life in it.

I will, eventually, check it but I've spent so many hours on this SpinRite problem that I'm way behind on domestic and sports club duties that I must attend. Plus an email problem arose last night.

Although I still haven't run SR on my dodgy HDD when I do I'll start another thread if there's a problem.

Thank you and everyone for all that welcome assistance.
🙏


#48

A

AlanD

Rog7 said:
If the CMOS battery is only used when there's no power it should have quite a bit of life in it.


🙏
Click to expand...
IIRC the CMOS battery is used all the time to maintain the settings. If it fails, but mains power is still available, the settings should be retained, but if the mains fails, settings will be lost/reset to factory.


#49

peterblaise

peterblaise

Right, if we pull the power plug and remove a laptop's removable
battery, for example, to force a complete shutdown, if the little CMOS
BIOS batter is weak, the computer may ask the data and time and reset
factory defaults at next boot.


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